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Old 24th May 2010, 12:35 AM   #1
Solo
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I'm windsurfing ok with Formula board, and doing good with a Carve 111,
but sometimes, with the Carve, i'm going through chops and the fin looses the grip and i end sliding sideways.
What's the solution to that problem? I'm trying to put the hips as forward as i can, and to have my weight in the forward foot, but even then, as i get confortable, i go thorough a chop (don't even realize the fin got out of the water, but it happens again!!
What should i do?
Solo

Last edited by Solo; 24th May 2010 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Mistake
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Old 24th May 2010, 11:50 AM   #2
Roger
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Hi Solo,
How about a little more information for us to work with?
What size sail, how much wind, what size/brand is the fin?
If it's the stock fin, and you have not sanded the graphics on the fin blade
to get rid of the little bumps, wet sand your fin to smooth out the foil.
Also, it's a bit difficult to come off a formula board with a 70 cm fin and
not "push to hard" on a small slalom or freeride fin.
It could be technique (or you are just pushing too hard) or it could be a poor preforming
fin.
How big is the chop? Is you board coming completely out of the water in little "chop hops"?
If the fin comes clear of the water, and you do not kick your board back under your butt
so the fin lands pointing a bit downwind of your course (trajectory here) then nearly any fin will spin out when it gets back in the water as you probably are still pushing when it comes clear of the water, so the tail of the board lands downwind of your course (trajectory). If the fin re-enters the water pointing below your course, it hooks up pretty
easily. If the fin re-enters the water pointing above your course, it gets too much pressure and will most likely spin out instantly.
Also, are you using a vertical fin (slalom type) or a more curvy freeride or wave type fin.
This can make a big difference.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Last edited by Roger; 25th May 2010 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 25th May 2010, 04:37 AM   #3
Solo
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Thank you ROGER, let me give you more information:
The fin i use is the stock one that comes with the board, and it's a little rough on the edges because of some small scratches. I haven't done anything to it (didn't know it was necesary).
The wind range where i have problems is around 20-25 knots, with either 6.0 or 5.3 sails. i guess the chops are 30 - 40 cms, maybe a bit more.
With the tips on the technique i will try to improve and coment back.
Thanks,
Solo
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Old 25th May 2010, 08:51 AM   #4
Roger
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Hi Solo,
What year is your Carve 111?
I'm trying to figure out which Statboard or Drake fin you have.
Some where good, some not so good.
Do try to take a foam/sponge fine or extra fine sanding pad and wet sand the scratches
off the edges, and fair in completely any areas of the foil that are rough.
If you have an early carve, with a fairly curvy Starboard fin, they weren't too bad.
If you have access to a shop, check in their used fin bin for some other fins in the same size range (maybe 4 cm larger and 4 cm smaller).
Often it's just something about a particular fin, and even the fin guru's cannot tell you how to make a bad fin into a good one.
With a 5.3-6.0 m2 sail range on a Carve 111 I would think you would be looking in the 30-36 cm range. Maybe down to 28 cm for the 5.3 in really powered conditions.
Also, curvy wave/bump and jump style fins are a lot more forgiving than vertical slalom fins. The slalom fins are a bit faster, and go upwind a little better, but they don't do so well if your fin comes out of the water.
Also, if you are used to sailing your formula, with the boom really high, try bringing the boom down some, and adjusting your harness lines so you stay in over the tail of the board more. Narrow boards with smaller fins pretty much demand that you keep your body more vertical and over the fin (vs 40-50 cm away from the fin on your Formula
board.)
Next time you spin out, try to notice if you got bounced high enough to bring the fin clear out of the water.
If so, you need to treat these little chop hops like the small jumps that they are.
Tuck the board under you with your back foot, try to get the board to land slightly fin first and pointing a little downwind of where your trajectory is heading.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Last edited by Roger; 25th May 2010 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 25th May 2010, 12:53 PM   #5
Solo
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ROGER:
My board is Carve 111, year 2005. The fin is 32 and is curvy.
I didn't know the position of the body had to change in this tipe of board.
When you say that the body has to be near the fin (further back), isn't that going to put the weight on the back foot, and force spinouts?
When you say lower the boom and adjusting the harness lines, do you mean bring them further back? What's going to be the possitive effect?
I'm very interested on understanding those principles!!
Thanks,
Solo
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Old 25th May 2010, 06:53 PM   #6
Roger
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Hi Solo,
Ummmm..... no, shorten your harness lines so that you stand up taller and more OVER the board.
This should make things so you cannot push SIDEWAYS as much as you do on your formula board.
I did not say the body needs to be "near the fin". What I mean is that your weight needs to be more inboard, and pushing down (vs sideways).
I think the fin box and rear footstrap arrangement (you are using two rear straps.... right?
will put your back foot just over the front of the fin, which is about right.
What you want to do, is keep the pressure DOWN on the fin to keep it in the water, but put less sideways (across the top of the water to the lee side) pressure on the fin so you don't push it loose and spin out.
When you are going fairly slow, you can't push hard because there is not enough water velocity past the fin to take very much side pressure.
When you are going much faster, you can increase the pressure some, but never pushing hard like on formula with a 70 cm fin.
Hope this helps,
Roger
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Old 25th May 2010, 10:06 PM   #7
Solo
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I got the idea!! Look forward to try soon on the water. I will let you know the progress.
I'm getting a new board in 2 months, it's an Isonic 94 (2010). Since it's a slalom board, does it work similar to the Formula or to the Carve (small boards)?
Thanks,
Solo
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Old 26th May 2010, 12:02 AM   #8
Ken
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Solo,

No doubt that there are sailing techniques that help reduce "spinout" as Roger has suggested. However, some fins are prone to spin out and there is little you can do to fix the problem. There is no way to look at a fin and determine if it is spinout prone or not. You have to get on the water to see.

There are several custom fin makers that make great fins that will reduce spinout by 80-90% over some stock fins, but you are looking at an investment of $175+ US dollars to solve the problem.

You may want to consider Tectonics fins. I have a Tomcat 42 for my iS 111 and love it, but the new Talon is getting great reviews. http://www.tectonicsmaui.com/index.htm.
The new Isonics don't come with fins so you will have to order something for your new board.

I have an iS 111, so I can't speak directly to the 94, but I guess I would say that it feels more like a mini-formula board than a medium size freeride board (outboard straps, wide tail, quick planing, moderate gybing radius and quick acceleration). I have a starboard formula 160.
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Old 4th June 2010, 12:04 PM   #9
Solo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
Hi Solo,
Ummmm..... no, shorten your harness lines so that you stand up taller and more OVER the board.
This should make things so you cannot push SIDEWAYS as much as you do on your formula board.
I did not say the body needs to be "near the fin". What I mean is that your weight needs to be more inboard, and pushing down (vs sideways).
I think the fin box and rear footstrap arrangement (you are using two rear straps.... right?
will put your back foot just over the front of the fin, which is about right.
What you want to do, is keep the pressure DOWN on the fin to keep it in the water, but put less sideways (across the top of the water to the lee side) pressure on the fin so you don't push it loose and spin out.
When you are going fairly slow, you can't push hard because there is not enough water velocity past the fin to take very much side pressure.
When you are going much faster, you can increase the pressure some, but never pushing hard like on formula with a 70 cm fin.
Hope this helps,
Roger
ROGER:
I sailed today for the first time after this reply, and follow your advise.
It was a great day for windsurfing and for testing your tips.
The wind was 25 knots +, so it was also choppy. I sailed with 5.3 sail most of the time overpowered.
I have to tell you i did pretty well, and had much more control, so i really have to thank your advice. The best 2 tips were:
-Change the rear strap position
-Put the weight inboard
Those 2 made the difference, now i even feel more confident to jump, which i was not doing before.
Sailed for 1 1/2 with just 2 spinouts, which is much less for me, and i wasn't in good position at the moment.
Will keep you posted!!
Solo
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Old 5th June 2010, 12:05 AM   #10
Roger
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Glad to hear the suggestions have helped with your spin out issues.
Keep working on getting comfortable (comfortable is fast!!!!!) on the
smaller narrower Carve 111, and you will be able to take these skills
on to your Isonic 94.
I just had my new 2010 iSonic 94 out with a 4 cam 6.2 Sailworks NX slalom last weekend.
What a wicked fast little board!
Took me a while to get the tuning on the rig to suit the board, and I pushed a 29 cm
weed fin loose a few times (in 20 knots of wind and 1/2 meter chop) but overall, it was
fast and I was getting comfortable.
You will like the iSonic 94!
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