Early planing question

[Sailboarder]

The light bulbs were spot on. My board trimming was wrong and I need to sail with a higher nose with my Kona longboard in order to plane better. With the better rake, the board "pops" a bit more on a plane. I can also stay longer on a plane by staying a bit further back on the board.

And if I lose the plane, having the nose a bit higher brings the bow wave closer to the planing area. A gust combined with a strong pump and a push of the board forward gets me over the bow wave to a plane. I'm still not good at pumping to a plane, but I can now do it!

Thanks again Roger!

[joe_windsurfer]

hey sailboarder
glad to see this post !!!
as i was there with you yesterday, i actually commented in my journals about how you were riding "nose high" yesterday
now i understand why
based on what i have seen and read - does this apply in marginal winds or all winds ??
ie this idea of putting the mast foot back and pumping to get over the "leading wave" ?
yesterday winds were 15 to 25 mph and thus over 20 knots at times
i was over with my MS-2 8-oh and yet always try to keep the board flat in those conditions
my understanding was that in good winds you keep the board flat for MORE SPEED
since i was over and wanted to get back on the board yesterday, i actually moved the mast forward when i came in after the first runs - obviously tightened the outhaul as well !!
then i ripped across the river with the Select fin screaming - need to sand it more
after yesterday's sailing, i was quite cold - okay during the session
need to find a trick to warm up after !!!

[Sailboarder]

Joe,

First, the higher nose trimming will not apply as much on you UltraCat, the rocker is probably very different and flatter. It is quite board specific.

The single pump thing was tryied with success several times in the longer lulls provided by windshadows on the other side of the bay, when entering the small Ile-Perrot yacht club bay. The wind was marginal there. My weight placement contributed more to the board trimming than the mast foot position.

In the prevalent stronger winds yesterday, the mast foot could have been a bit further to the front, in order to increase control. I reckon the nose could have been kept a bit lower at high speed, but not so much in order to clear the chop!

About the cold, I was happy to keep my helmet liner yesterday to stay warm. I also brought an old jacket to put over my wetsuit after the ride, but didn't need it. Next time, I will bring a wool hat to put on my head after the ride, I think it will do the trick for me.

[Roger]

Hi Joe,
Sailboarder has it right!
On an UltraCat or any more traditional longboard, with the rear planing surfaces extending well forward of the mast track, moving the mast foot back will not really help very much with getting planing, but it still applies.
Best to take a string, stretch it over the bottom of your inverted Ultracat and find out where the flat surface ends.
Then you can take a couple of little electrical tape "arrows" and mark these positions near the rails on the top of your board.
Then you will know where the "rocker transition" actually is and you can use the arrows as a guide when you are sailing.
When planing, having as much of the board as possible, out of the water is always faster, until you reach a speed where control becomes more important, then you can move the mast foot forward a little to get the best balance between speed and control.
To get planing, yes you want the board very flat in the roll (rail to rail or athwartships) axis. You also need to get the bottom of the board (the planing surface (s) inclined so they are higher at the front.
This is called "positive pitch angle". Your weight placement has more effect on fore and aft (Pitch) trim
than the mast foot does but moving the mast foot back also helps you to move your weight back.'
If you really want to trim your board out to plane well (even in marginal conditions) you need to get enough speed so you can get back and into the rear (planing) footstraps.
I'm a fairly light guy (160 lbs./ 72.6 Kg. back in the day) and I remember the first time I was fully planed out and back in the rearmost straps on an F2 380 long board. Wow, it seemed like about 11 feet of that 12 foot + board was out of the water. Not so easy to control, but pretty fast.
So, to plane well, flat tirm side to side, positive (pitch trim) fore and aft.
Roger

[joe_windsurfer]

too funny
i used to use these principals in the past
another windsurf buddy - newbie shortboarder like me - said he felt the nose on my board was always too high and it looked like the back was dragging {never felt like it was}
another fellow at auventfou also mentioned importance of flat boarding when planing
with those comments and too much longboarding i have been keeping my front foot forward keeping the board flat
now i will go back to my old ways - which i felt were more natural at the time
thanx for putting me straight sailboarder and roger
and i will be ready to rock ...
hey sailboarder - it's gonna be good 2 go today too !!

[Sailboarder]

Roger,
Thanks again for taking the time to explain everything clearly,

Joe,
Sadly, I will miss it today due to family duties.

[joe_windsurfer]

roger

still feel early planing and fast sailing are two(2) different animals
and NOT talking about a longboard, but shortboards
Kevin Pritchard mentions more lift from bigger fins and outboard straps for early planing
this alone implies moving the track back
Bruce Peterson and others mention the board needs to stay "trim" side to side AND nose to tail - where nose to tail is the most difficult - this setup is for speed {without burying nose in chop obviously}
one suggestion is raising the boom...

when winds are strong enough, i do NOT worry about "early planing", but more about control and speed.
when winds are light, "early planing" becomes more of an issue/concern and then i simply put bigger sails, bigger fins and go more downwind when necessary.
the easiest fix for this was the Fanatic CAT :-) planes really early, but does ride flatter {obviously the longboard/raceboard solution}

NOT saying i disagree with anything you said here - just feel nose higher in bigger winds (over say 18 knots) is counter-productive ...

thx for understanding

[Roger]

Hi Joe,
I do not think I ever suggested moving the mast foot back ON A SHORTBOARD in higher winds to plane better.
You can keep moving the mast foot back (this diminishes the wetted area of the board as the nose does ride slightly higher) until your board tailwalks out of control.
Solution: move the mast foot back forward to the "sweet spot" for that particular board. This can vary with what "angles" you are sailing.
For back and forth reaching (not at extreme angles either upwind or downwind) every board has a "sweet spot" for the mast foot and a particular sailor/rig combination where it planes effortlessly, at max. speed with manageable control.
Moving the mast foot forward on a slalom board can slow you down, make the board "pound" over the chop. On the other hand if you move the mast foot pressure too far back you will be out of control.
Out of control/tailwalking may seem fast, but it's not.
Formula boards are very different.
They run the mast foot very far forward (when racing) to be able to run the extremely high and low angles.
When formula sailors are going downwind, they are all the way back and often in the chicken strap in the middle of the board so the sailor weight is at or behind the stern of the board. They dump the outhaul to bag the sail for max. control and speed while standing at the extreme back of the board so they can go nearly straight downwind on a full plane (i.e. they are sailing faster, straight downwind, than the wind speed, so the only wind they have is apparent since they are sailing faster than the true wind.
When going upwind on a formula board the sail is outhauled for max. upwind angle, the harness lines are adjusted very short, and the sailors weight is significantly further forward on the board so they can use their upwind speed to generate more apparent wind to sail higher and faster.
They also tip the board slightly lee rail down and push on their big efficient 70 cm fins to get more upwind drive.
I fully understand the differences between marginal (underpowered planing) conditions vs powered up conditions for a shortboard,a formula board, and a longboard.
All are different, and require different trimming of the boards attitude.
Hope this clears up why you need to alter your trim for different conditions.
Roger

[joe_windsurfer]

thx roger

clear as pie - it was i who was mixing the ideas and confused as a result !!
believe the confusion came cuz everyone thought i was on the CAT when i was on a 160 liter/79 cm AHD shortboard

you da man !!