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Old 3rd July 2012, 01:18 PM   #11
windalchemist
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I totally agree with you Floyd, unfortunately nowadays brands and ads plus old and new prejudices contribute to make us oversexualized and stereotyped human beings, instead of human beings first. Men and women are not different species as they are marketized. However I don't think you could say that they are exactly the same either, a few individuals apart.
I consider myself more as tom boy than a delicate creature on some aspects and never really was subject to discrimination, being a little bit "special" (I don't really know how to say this...).


So this all comes down to changing minds and societies in the end! Same old story, as old as the world itself. Some told me that at the beginning of the sport, there was no discrimination against any age or gender, the ads only showed young people having fun together in all kinds of conditions? Things look less bright now...

Any Starboard marketing pro in there to explain how stereotypes won over time?


PS: about "when she is good enough to practice by herself - with friends - do not leave her coping with all the house chores and babysitting that will eventually prevent her from sailing, and make her quit" it's not from me, it's from a female windsurfer complaining about her husband not involving himlself as much as he should to enable her to go windsurfing more often and relaxed.

The other statements are generalities that tend to be more or less true depending on the customs and countries, again, relax! If I compare with a friend of mine, they are all true! And I sometimes envy his strength and his ability to go 100% any time, any conditions. I try harder, try to level up my technique, and in the end I'm still no match for him most of the time (yet ^^). It's ennerving, it's not fair, I didn't develop enough skills to compensate my lack of big muscles (and maybe I don't have these skills) but it's the way it is for now.
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Old 3rd July 2012, 03:46 PM   #12
Floyd1957
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Hi Windalchemist
Think we are saying similar things. Do agree with much of what you say. Being father of 2 girls I have witnessed discrimination against them. In their case its only served to make them try harder.

The physical thing you mention about competing with your male friend is not exclusive to just females and its not necessarily a male female thing..Ofcourse men tend to be stronger and build muscle quicker. But dont forget you arent competing with him; you are competing with yourself (as he also is) The important issue is the relative gain of both...Not one matched against the other.. Endurance wise things are much closer than we tend to think anyway.. Big muscles consume loads of energy...(Compare male/female results in sprinting then in long distance running.Relative less difference the longer the event) Sail your own style.Dont copy his.
If we examine male/female performance over the entire spectrum of ability its quite likely that the top female s would only get towards the top 10% in males; however this also means that if a female gets towards the 75th percentile in female performance; she is well above the 50th (roughly) male..
This is just a complicated way of saying a good female sailor will beat an average male. (And that applies in all sports) Unfortunately the media only report on the top 1% of performers so the public are led to believe women are always poorer than men..Look at it another way. The top female tennis player at wimbledon would wipe the floor with your average male club player.Only thing is he doesnt know it !!!

My point is male or female need individual approaches and equipment. If this is done correctly the male/female issue is irrelevant.. The perfect kit for a 75kg sailor of a particular standard is the same be it for male or female...

I often wonder how many differences are actual nature and how many are society driven nurture..

Watersports in general are a place women CAN compete on equal terms.. Dont ever think any other.. You are giving your psyche a reason and justification to fail; for him to be better. Sure he might do higher jumps; he might go a bit faster (thats pure physics and nothing to do with ability) but make sure your gybes are neater; tighter; smoother. Work on finesse and precision. (Again not a male/female thing a simple weight/strength one !!! I`d be saying same to a lighter male)
If you tire early dont put it down to a female thing. Check your diet; your fluid intake..Work on relaxing whilst sailing..Look for cheats whilst sailing/dropping into lines. Are your lines too long/short. Are you over working a particular area.Improve your stamina and efficiency then see how things look later. Dont just accept it that males are fitter !!! They aint.. He`sworked to get where he is.. To beat him unfortunately you will just have to work that bit harder or more cleverly !!!
Train to your own limits; expectations and goals. Forget his..Sail to your strengths.
And dont think he has all benefits.. His big arms use up energy at an alarming rate. His ego will insist he sails a board thats just a touch too small and his sail just a touch too big. He`ll probably have a hangover if its sunday. He sinks in lulls way faster than you; he has to enter gybes faster to plane out. Look for your positives and train to them. When he`s in a lull ; glyde past him and make sure you wave !!!

Good thread on a topic that has been a bugbear of mine..Sorry if it sounds like a crusade. Its an important issue.
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Old 3rd July 2012, 04:04 PM   #13
Floyd1957
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PS
To answer original question.

TELL WOMEN ITS A SPORT THEY CAN BEAT THEIR BOYFRIENDS/HUSBANDS/BROTHERS AT...

Cos they CAN !!!!

They dont need any special allowances.. They`ve got the trump card. More intelligent; smaller ego`s and lighter weight... Just do it !!!
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Old 7th July 2012, 05:51 AM   #14
windalchemist
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careful here, you're falling into stereotypes XD (I wish I were lighter ^^)

but yeah, I'll be working on it, I definitely want to try forward loops, I see so few people sticking or even attempting them, my windsurfing insrtuctor told it was even easier than jibes (technically speaking!)
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Old 9th July 2012, 06:34 PM   #15
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Yeh you might be right ... Nobody`s perfect and all that..
I`m in better mood now booked for Kos !!!

And I do agree... There arent enough females involved in our sport.. If you compare with other similar sports (Wakeboarding/water skiing/Snowboarding etc) I do suspect there are relatively fewer.. Not sure why..Go on a skiing holiday and its probably 50/50 on slopes.. Sailing holiday and its more like 90/10 ?? And I dont think ski schools make any allowances or offer different approaches??? Perhaps some skiing instructor might know???
Any ideas ???

Good winds

Take care..
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Old 10th July 2012, 07:17 AM   #16
Farlo
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These are just my 5 cents but... my wife was sailing much better than me when I met her. For a few years we enjoyed windsurfing together, then she gave up almost completely after our first kid. The main reason was that she didn't like it to become addictive... watching trees all the time, planning nothing on weekends just in case, waiting for gusts all day long, changing board/sails every year, reading stupid magazines (not talking of stupid forums). This is not an explanation because other sports are addictive as well. Maybe there is something special in windsurf that makes you a bit selfish.

Last edited by Farlo; 7th August 2012 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 07:53 PM   #17
NewStoke
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I've taught a few girls, but I think the major thing that causes people to lose interest is the cost of everything.
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Old 4th August 2012, 07:35 PM   #18
jmunkki
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There are a lot more women now sailing at my home spot here in Finland. I think there was some sort of culture change a few years ago: there were more demos & basic windsurfing courses at the beach and we got a whole lot of new people into the sport. In addition to the demos & courses, the local club also started improving the shared gear that the club provides for members.

From what I have seen, women seem to prefer to plan well ahead, so they don't mind that they have to reserve the gear on a web calendar. The calendar also allows them to be more social: they can book the same time slot as their friends and do the rigging and sailing together. Most of the women who started a few years ago are now on their first or second board of their own. A few of them are still using the club gear.

So, my advice would be to improve the social aspects of the sport. A simple web calendar goes a long way in achieving that.
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