Old 16th February 2007, 12:41 PM   #1
rbasabe
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Default Start centerboard?

We have 2 original start's in our school, and have a problem of the boards not staying upwind wiyh original fin and or centerboard. Has there been any upgrades in either of these so we can continue using these boards. We are nonprofit society and cant afford new ones. thanks
rbasabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2007, 09:38 PM   #2
o2bnme
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maine & North Carolina
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to o2bnme Send a message via Yahoo to o2bnme
Default RE: Start centerboard?

When I have enough depth, I put an old 58cm fin I got with a used board I purchased. It seems to help keep the Start upwind, but the one I have doesn't point very well. I've been trying to convince my wife to try my old Windsurfer Classic. She will be able to head upwind much better on it, but it will be less stable.

Can you point upwind at all with the current setup or is it not even possible? It should be possible, but you shouldn't expect to point like a longboard with a centerboard three times the size of the Start's.
__________________
Starboard [Gemini, F-Type 148, iSonic 105], AHD [Convert 60, GT Special 73], Windsurfer
Neil Pryde [v8 9.8], Sailworks [Retro 8.0; Hucker 6.6, 5.6, 4.8]


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
o2bnme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2007, 12:35 AM   #3
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,102
Default RE: Start centerboard?

Hi guys,
First, let's determione which Start center fins you have, how much water
depth you are teaching in, and what sort of "storage" problems longer center fins might create?
So, what color and shape are the center fins you are using?
This one......?
http://www.start-windsurfing.com/image/parts.jpeg
This one......?
http://2002.star-board.com/products/image/start_mn7.jpg
This early "Starbox" Retractable....?
http://2003.star-board.com/products/boards/star_box.gif
The first "Clipper Box" retractable....?
http://2004.star-board.com/products/image/clipperbox_blue.jpg

Depending on which you have, we have solutions for you (based on your available water depth).
I've used all the models of the Start boards to teach more than 1000 new windsurfers in the Starboard/Sailworks "A Taste of Windsurfing" program, and while I've not always agree with the philosopy and performance of the various center fins and centerboards *bd has supplied, we've always been able to come up with some alternative that worked and allowed our "fledgling" windsurfers to sail back upwind to where they started, once they get the their basic skills (uphauling, getting underway, tacking) mastered. Most of them have had no problems what so ever sailing back to where they left from on their very first time on a board.
There have been occasions where there were adverse, strong, sideshore currents where we were forced to use rather drastic "measures" (like tethers in the Hampton Roads main channel) to keep our students in the beginner area, but mostly we've been able to come up with fins that balance well with the board/rig and there are no problems staying upwind.
So, if you can identify which center fin/retractable centerboard "system" you have on your boards, we can offer some suggestions that we've found to work and solve any "downwind tendancies".
A couple of major variables here is where you place the mast foot, and
the sail sizes and rig types you are using.
For sails smaller than 3.0 m2 it's absolutely critical that the mast foot be as far back in the slot as possible.
This is a CLR (Center of Lateral Resistance) of the fin/centerfin vs the CE
(Center of Effort) issue and with the smaller sails, the CE is so close to the mast that there is really no way to get the CE to "balance" over the CLR (or better still behind it) with the distance from the Start mast base slot to the CLR of the center fin or center board.
I've tried numerous times to have a longer mast box insert put into the Start, Rio, and Starsurfer/Kiddy boards to solve this issue, but the problem remains.
So, I&#39;ve built a "mast box extender" that really does solve the problem and you could easily build the same device for your smallest sailors on < 3.0 m2 rigs.
An alternative would be to have a local board repair shop put a auxilliary mast box in some of your boards ( or do it yourself) for your tinyest sailors.
So, please reply as to which center fins you are using, and we can suggest what we have used that solves this problem.
There are also some "beginner technique" issues that we&#39;ve encountered and can offer some suggestions on this aspect as well.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2007, 02:16 AM   #4
o2bnme
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maine & North Carolina
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to o2bnme Send a message via Yahoo to o2bnme
Default RE: Start centerboard?

1


2


3


4
__________________
Starboard [Gemini, F-Type 148, iSonic 105], AHD [Convert 60, GT Special 73], Windsurfer
Neil Pryde [v8 9.8], Sailworks [Retro 8.0; Hucker 6.6, 5.6, 4.8]


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
o2bnme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2007, 02:18 AM   #5
o2bnme
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maine & North Carolina
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to o2bnme Send a message via Yahoo to o2bnme
Default RE: Start centerboard?

I&#39;m using #3 with a different fin in the back. My Start came with a 40cm that looks something like this...


I switched it out for the 58cm race fin that came with my F-Type 148 (your old board Roger). When the Start is used in shallow water, I use the 40cm fin instead of the 58cm.
__________________
Starboard [Gemini, F-Type 148, iSonic 105], AHD [Convert 60, GT Special 73], Windsurfer
Neil Pryde [v8 9.8], Sailworks [Retro 8.0; Hucker 6.6, 5.6, 4.8]


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
o2bnme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2007, 07:46 PM   #6
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,102
Default RE: Start centerboard?

Hi rbsabe,
Can you tell us which of the above center fins (probably #1 or #2) you have in your 2 Start boards?
I mostly used the stock (OEM) rear fin in the center fin slot, and then put a True Ames 38 cm Shallow water fin in the rear slot.
Others have used a very small fin in the rear slot and the stock rear fin in the middle.
Astually a small slalom fin (like the 42 cm that came with the original 105 Hypersonic, proved to be the best setup. Not so long that the students could not do beachstarts, and pretty good for shallower waters, but much better upwnd than either "1 or #2 above.
And, as discussed on your post to the other forum, there could be some significant technique issues here as well.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2007, 06:08 AM   #7
mitchiedog
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Default RE: Start centerboard?

Hi Roger
I took a friend who has just got hold of a Start 200L and he has had a couple of tries on it and I think hes hooked already. He&#39;s a really big guy 120kg, and I was wondering what setup advice you can give for someone of his size?

The board has the centreboard and a similar fin to #1 above but only 30cm.

he has shown pretty good balance and because of his strength he had no trouble pulling a 6m rig (only option at this point) out of the water in 15-18 knots of wind and chop. These are the conditions we experience most often. he hasn&#39;t really planed properly yet though even in that wind strength, and I was wondering whether he should get a bigger fin? I have a 48cm carve 131 stock freeride fin I can give him - do you think that would be worth a try? Where do you suggest he puts the mast in the track?

He has no problem staying up wind, and in fact he rounds up so much he just stalls. I think perhaps he could try removing the centreboard too. thanks a lot.
mitchiedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2007, 09:08 AM   #8
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,102
Default RE: Start centerboard?

Hello mitchiedog;
Yes, if you have a 48 cm fin, and there&#39;s enough water where you&#39;re sailing, give the larger fin a try.
Have him try the board without the center fin (put in the plug where the center fin goes).
Also have him try the mast base in the middle, and little behind the center, to see if that doesn&#39;t help with turning upwind.
Also, ensure that he&#39;s getting the mast well across in front of his front shoulder (well across past vertical and over to the other side so the board accelerates forward across the wind without turning upwind).
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2007, 06:20 AM   #9
mitchiedog
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Default RE: Start centerboard?

thanks Roger, I&#39;ll pass that on. He doesn&#39;t have the plug to replace the centreboard, so i guess water will flood up and create drag. I wonder if he could make a simple plug from a piece of wood and a tuttle bolt?
mitchiedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2007, 08:43 AM   #10
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,102
Default RE: Start centerboard?

Hi mitchiedog,
Yes, he could easily make a plug.
Just get a small piece of wood that&#39;s about 5/8" thick (the plug should finish up at about 0.620" thick, lay his fin on top of the board and draw the profile of the fin head.
Then a little work with a saw, the radius the ends, sand the board down until it fits easily in the fin box,
Be sure to get some wood that won&#39;t "swell" when wet as this could damage the fin box.
Drill a couple of pilot holes with the block fully inserted in the board, install a couple of 6mm inserts and he would have a very nice fin box plug.
Another option would be to get a broken off fin and grind off all the broken part until you have a nice flat surface that matches the bottom of the board (profile).
Even with no plug, not that much water will come up through the box.
Another option is to take a piece of good tape and simply tape over the center fin slot.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 11:32 AM.