Where is the carbon in JP slalom ?

1st November 2011, 09:23 PM

Can anyone tell me ? Or is there any

3rd November 2011, 03:27 AM

I thought same with a broken Kode !! The "carbon" in bottom laminate looked thin enough to have been painted on !!

Its time there was an investigation into exactly what we are buying !!! Nobody seems bothered paying £1500+ for a board as long as its light !!! They are lighter with no carbon in ??? Come on starboard ; tell us some figures abot the actual carbon content of "carbon" boards >>>>>>

Remi · 3rd November 2011, 08:38 AM

Hi Unregistered,

Sorry for your broken Kode but you can be sure that it was Carbon, we never do this strange fiber glass paint in black and call it Carbon. It's UD Carbon 80g + 60g Glass.

All the best

davide · 3rd November 2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I thought same with a broken Kode !! The "carbon" in bottom laminate looked thin enough to have been painted on !!

You don't realized how "magical" is composite constructions. The laminate of a board is extremely thin. In the old days I built non sandwich boards using 2 layers of 6oz + 1 9oz glass + unidirectional strip. Those were enough to guarantee integrity and you could actually see the thickness in the glass laminate (and feel the weight of the board!). Enter sandwich construction and the number of layers goes down dramatically, and the thickness of the laminate looks "scary thin".

Examples: My Mike's Lab Course Board is almost ten years old. Built in composite with 1 layer on each side of the 2mm hard foam using 4oz Carbon. Still structurally strong.

My old Rogue Wave B&J was 10 years old when I sold it two years ago. Still going strong, and built with 1 layer/side 6oz carbon plus a reinforcement in the tail.

In both cases the glass/carbon skin looks "as thin as paper".

And keep in mind: the wood sandwich material itself is just 0.6 mm! Equivalent of a thick cardboard.

John1 · 4th November 2011, 04:30 PM

What do "biaxial Carbon and laminated in multiaxial construction" mean?
Are the highquality Starboards constructed in this manner?
JJ

4th November 2011, 11:02 PM

Think you`ll find Davide there is only one laminate "layer" to the outside of the so called coremat sandwich nowadays... Last year I badly damaged a Quad on underside (no fault of board) and was surprised to find the coremat (higher density foam) in direct contact with EPS core ??? Could be wrong but I had a good look and could find no "inner" laminate; glass/carbon or whatever.. There was the coremat and then the outside "shell" which was thin but if you want a light board ????

Should be interesting (and not difficult) to calculate the actual amounts of Carbon/kevlar/technora in a board..
We know volume (???) we know the weight, and density of foam is fairly easy to find ???

What does an EPS core weigh ??? Reckon it represents 90% of board weight ??? Perhaps its why manufacturers aren`t too keen on publishing accurate volume ???

John1 · 5th November 2011, 05:14 PM

So next time I`m damaging a board, I can cut it down in transversal slides, investigate the differents layers from outside layers and into to the core. Generally: If it`s not corresponding to the information we got when byuing the boards, I think we have a big problem.
JJ

Remi · 6th November 2011, 11:31 AM

Hi Unregistered,

Just make you up date on this, it's not possible to have EPS glue with only resin to the PVC, we always use fiber glass, so Starboard and I think the other Manufactures use Fiber glass also, other wise the board will delaminate immediately.

For your info the EPS is 15.5 Kg/m3

Hope this help

All the best

6th November 2011, 08:25 PM

That might be case Remi and perhaps I was mistaken BUT (honestly) I could see no evidence of an inner laminate between the higher density foam and EPS core.. (On a Kode under hull) ?????????

I was surprised aswell.. I`d always assumed there was a laminate layer (Glass/carbon/kevlar or what ever) a thin dense foam (perhaps 3mm?) and then outer laminate. (Glass/carbon/wood or whatever) Thought it was wehere sandwich construction got its name. (ie denser foam sandwiched between 2 laminates ????)

This did not appear to be case , but I`ll have another look..

6th November 2011, 08:34 PM

On EPS core weight

1 m cubed represents 1000 litres volume . (I think ?)

If EPS weighs 15kg per Metre cubed

a 100 litre board will have a core weight of approx 1.5 kg and has a total weight of approx 7kg ???

Therfore weight of glass/carbon/wood/dense foam ?? will represent approx 5.5kg ???

Perhaps some builders would like to comment ????

1st November 2011, 09:23 PM	#1
Jonny Guest Posts: n/a	Where is the carbon in JP slalom ? Can anyone tell me ? Or is there any

3rd November 2011, 08:38 AM	#3
Remi STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,339	Hi Unregistered, Sorry for your broken Kode but you can be sure that it was Carbon, we never do this strange fiber glass paint in black and call it Carbon. It's UD Carbon 80g + 60g Glass. All the best __________________ Rémi Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards : Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161 Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141. iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117, 127 & 137 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. UltraSonic 147 Formula Experience One Design Phantom Race 377/320 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Phantom 295 : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Formula 167 & 167 Wide : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Racing Serinity Cat Concept To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

6th November 2011, 11:31 AM	#8
Remi STARBOARD DEVELOPMENT Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,339	Hi Unregistered, Just make you up date on this, it's not possible to have EPS glue with only resin to the PVC, we always use fiber glass, so Starboard and I think the other Manufactures use Fiber glass also, other wise the board will delaminate immediately. For your info the EPS is 15.5 Kg/m3 Hope this help All the best __________________ Rémi Can answer if you have any questions on this following boards : Carve 111, 121, 131, 141, 151 & 161 Futura 93, 101, 111, 121, 131 & 141. iSonic 80, 87, 90, 97, 107, 110, 117, 127 & 137 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. UltraSonic 147 Formula Experience One Design Phantom Race 377/320 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Phantom 295 : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Formula 167 & 167 Wide : To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Racing Serinity Cat Concept To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Remi; 6th November 2011 at 11:34 AM.

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3rd November 2011, 03:27 AM	#2
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	I thought same with a broken Kode !! The "carbon" in bottom laminate looked thin enough to have been painted on !! Its time there was an investigation into exactly what we are buying !!! Nobody seems bothered paying £1500+ for a board as long as its light !!! They are lighter with no carbon in ??? Come on starboard ; tell us some figures abot the actual carbon content of "carbon" boards >>>>>>

4th November 2011, 04:30 PM	#5
John1 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: south of sweden Posts: 78	What do "biaxial Carbon and laminated in multiaxial construction" mean? Are the highquality Starboards constructed in this manner? JJ

4th November 2011, 11:02 PM	#6
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Think you`ll find Davide there is only one laminate "layer" to the outside of the so called coremat sandwich nowadays... Last year I badly damaged a Quad on underside (no fault of board) and was surprised to find the coremat (higher density foam) in direct contact with EPS core ??? Could be wrong but I had a good look and could find no "inner" laminate; glass/carbon or whatever.. There was the coremat and then the outside "shell" which was thin but if you want a light board ???? Should be interesting (and not difficult) to calculate the actual amounts of Carbon/kevlar/technora in a board.. We know volume (???) we know the weight, and density of foam is fairly easy to find ??? What does an EPS core weigh ??? Reckon it represents 90% of board weight ??? Perhaps its why manufacturers aren`t too keen on publishing accurate volume ???

5th November 2011, 05:14 PM	#7
John1 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: south of sweden Posts: 78	So next time I`m damaging a board, I can cut it down in transversal slides, investigate the differents layers from outside layers and into to the core. Generally: If it`s not corresponding to the information we got when byuing the boards, I think we have a big problem. JJ

6th November 2011, 08:25 PM	#9
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	That might be case Remi and perhaps I was mistaken BUT (honestly) I could see no evidence of an inner laminate between the higher density foam and EPS core.. (On a Kode under hull) ????????? I was surprised aswell.. I`d always assumed there was a laminate layer (Glass/carbon/kevlar or what ever) a thin dense foam (perhaps 3mm?) and then outer laminate. (Glass/carbon/wood or whatever) Thought it was wehere sandwich construction got its name. (ie denser foam sandwiched between 2 laminates ????) This did not appear to be case , but I`ll have another look..

6th November 2011, 08:34 PM	#10
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	On EPS core weight 1 m cubed represents 1000 litres volume . (I think ?) If EPS weighs 15kg per Metre cubed a 100 litre board will have a core weight of approx 1.5 kg and has a total weight of approx 7kg ??? Therfore weight of glass/carbon/wood/dense foam ?? will represent approx 5.5kg ??? Perhaps some builders would like to comment ????