Old 23rd May 2007, 06:50 AM   #1
windsurferdagg
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Default the sail debate...

Hi again. Yes it is me with another question.

Well good news, I finally figured out how to rig my 6.6 slalom speed sail for maximum potential and figured out if you do downhaul it more (I think I was afraid to break it...) the leech does loosen. Im extatic! My 7.6 is amazing (Naish Redline 2006) and my 6.6 is ok now (as I just found out). My problem now is I have been very overpowered with my 6.6 some days when everyone else is on 5.8's or 6.0 to 6.2 and they are a bit overpowered they say.

So here is my question. To get the best range out of my quiver, should I go with a 5.6, 5.7, 5.8, 5.9 or 6.0 for my next sail?

I did find a great Gaastra Echo on sail for 300 brand new (2005) that rigs on my smallest mast (460) and fits my boom (182 minimum). I also found a 2003 Ezzy SE Wave that fits on a 430 or 460 (adjustable head) and it is full xply which I like.

So really I am looking for suggestions and what to look for in a smaller sail and what size. When I update my 6.6, I might end up still getting a 6.6 again, but that is up for debate I guess too.

I do want something sturdy and manueverable (because when I get a smaller board I know I WILL be jumping a lot and trying some arial tricks) so want to look for the future and get something good for now and later.

Thomas

PS for my quiver, I was thinking 7.6, 6.6, 5.8, 5.2ish and 4.5ish but I don't have any of the lower sails at all and don't have the masts for them either. My crappy 5.0 is terrible in gusts and terrible in lulls (its a wave sail from mid 90's with no tunability at all)
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Old 23rd May 2007, 08:05 PM   #2
crazychemical
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Default RE: the sail debate...

Hi windsurferdagg!

judging from what you already have : 5.0 6.6 and 7.6 i'd say you ought better to go for 5.7 or 5.8. Bare in mind that a difference of 0.3 m² is, in practice, almost nothing.
I have a gaastra pilot 5.5, which flies amazing, i can rig it up to 20 knts or so and i feel absolutly no difference between my older 5.7 and my gaastra 5.5 (which i absolutly admire and i truely recommend Gaastra as a sailbrand to you simply because of it's userfriendlyness, performance, style and compatibilety).
AS for the quiver you are thinking of ... you may want to reconsidder. See the Go is a great board and has a big range, but i find my 139 is already at it's very edge of performances when i put on my pilot 5.5 and a 40 cm freerace fin. If i use my 48 stock fin, i lose even more power and the go in the 5.5 conditions i use it in, is very difficult to controle. I mean, i have to stand on the ridge of the board just to keep it in it's propper course. Thats why, for the higher winds i bought my mistral flow.
Of course you weigh a lot less and with the 5.0 it might work (if you use a smaller fin, because that mightbe part of the problem with the 5.0) but i cezrtainly would not go under 5.0 with the GO 139. Even with your weight of 60 Kg, i think it was...
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Old 24th May 2007, 04:33 AM   #3
windsurferdagg
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Default RE: the sail debate...

oh I don't really plan to use my Go in anything under 6.6 weather. Just right now, I have no choice and it means sailing or not sailing so... you can see where I am coming from I guess.

Since I am addicted, I won't take shin to knee high chop and say, wow can't go out... I will go out no mater what! But i was thinking to get a sial for the future too. Since after the end of this year, I probably will end up getting a smaller board (100ish litres or so) and will use the 6.6 and 5.8 and 5.2 on that

But ya, just wondering your opinions on the above topic and tks for the help crazy chemical

you enjoying that mistral flow?
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Old 24th May 2007, 01:37 PM   #4
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Default RE: the sail debate...

i'm gonna try my flow this weekend, they've predicted a good 14 knots or so, so i'm gonne rig my 7.6 on it with a 34 cm fin and see wether i survive.
You be carefull with that addictiveness, i have it too but i got into some serious shit when i tried surfing my go in korinth this year with a 5.5 rigged to it's supermaximum in almost 25 knots.
any ideas onm what board you plan to get next?

gtz

crazy
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Old 24th May 2007, 07:11 PM   #5
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Default RE: the sail debate...

its hard to say what board I would get next, but I am thinking an older freestyle board. Maybe the freesex 2004-2005 or if im lucky the flare 06. Or another companies freestyle board. Or maybe a freestyle wave board. Maybe Naish, I hear they make quality stuff, and if its anything like my Redline, it should be awsome
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Old 24th May 2007, 09:14 PM   #6
Roger
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Default RE: the sail debate...

Hi Thomas and Crazychemical,
You guys are both on the right track here.
I agree that a 5.5-5.8 m2 rig will "fill in" your quiver.
I don't agree that 0.3 m2 makes very little difference.
And, spacing your quiver of these smaller sails can be pretty
critical.
You want to avoid having too much overlap as you then have too many sails/choices (not necessarily a bad thing, just hard on the budget), but you also need to avoid any "holes".
The "types" of sails you get can cause lots of problems as not all 5.8-6.0 m2 rigs have anything like the same power and stability.
You need to be investing in some smaller 430 and 400 masts to suit smaller sails. You can't get the performance and stability out of a small sail if it's got 2 feet of 460 IMCS 25 mast sticking out the top when the sail really needs a 430 IMCS 21 mast to perform.
And, since both of you are relatively inexperienced, I wonder how much "tuning" you are doing on your GO 139 for different conditions.
As the wind comes up, the sail size decreases, and the mast foot must be moved back on the board. The fin size needs to decrease as well.
Now that you are in the footstraps, and with another smaller 5.5-6.0 m2 rig, you may find you can sail your GO 139 comfortably and fast in knee to waist high chop.
Also, since with more wind you don't need to worry so much about staying upwind, don't take the chop "head on". Work you way through the chop. You express interest in jumping and "chop hopping" so here's your op[portunity. When you get going very fast, and the chop is at about a 45-60 deg. angle to your course, you can hop off every other wave.
Hope this helps,
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Old 25th May 2007, 01:15 AM   #7
crazychemical
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Default RE: the sail debate...

doing some tuning on mastfoot. You really need it when the wind picks up with the go. Unfortunatly i can't do too much fintuning as i only have the stock 480 drake fin and a select ride 40 to fit the Go. But it does enabvlez me to freestyle a bit more on the waves and shallow waters and race on the flatwaters of the veerse meer.
Usually i leave a gap of about 0.7 m² per sail. Starting with my 5.5, then going to 6.2 then i have a gap of 1.4 m² which sucks and needs to be filled up with 6.9 and then i have my 7.6. And you are right about the mast thing. I'm already savin up for a 400 mast and a 490 to go to 4.8 and 8.5 m² sails. The only prob is that the carbon masts i prefer (about 40 %) are so expencive. Thopugh i've found technofiber to deliver relatively good quality and good carbon percentages aswell.
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Old 25th May 2007, 04:15 AM   #8
windsurferdagg
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Default RE: the sail debate...

what kind of fin would you recomend to give me that extra edge on my board?

I know Kevin Pritchard is selling some fins and I might look into getting a used one.

Thomas
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Old 25th May 2007, 04:21 AM   #9
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Default RE: the sail debate...

and I thought moving the mast track back was for earlier planing? and in higher winds, the mast track was moved sutely forward to control the nose and let the rig keep the nose down a bit more over chop and keep up speed and control.

I like the idea of tuning the board too. Anything about the footstraps? Moving the straps to the furthest back outboard position or the furthest front outboard position or middle and what would that get me?

tks Roger,

Thomas
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Old 25th May 2007, 06:02 AM   #10
Roger
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Default RE: the sail debate...

Hi Thomas,
Whether to move the mast foot forward or back, to get earlier planing, depends a great deal on the board.
As a rule, on narrower boards, moving the mast foot forward some (but not all the way forward) will help with early planing and in some cases will help with "spinout" of the fin as you are putting mast foot pressure more forward on the rocker line and moving the pressure further away from the fin.
On wider boards with short wide planing surfaces at the back it's similar, but not quite the same.
On really wide formula boards, moving the mast foot all the way forward seems to be the way to get better upwind performance, but for recreational sailing, much further near the back of the track seems the best for smaller sails and earlier planing.
So, you have to "experiment" with your own boards and rigs to find out wht works in your "real world" conditions. No one can tell you what works "universally" as there is nothing much about windsurfing that's truly "universal".
Moving your mast foot forward, without a sail size change can work as you suggest, but be aware that if you get the mast foot a little too far forward, you can begin to drive the rockerline into the chop and get a bound and rebound cycle going that will make your board almost impossible to sail over the chop. Move the mast foot back a bit and things will smooth out considerably.
Having your footstraps all the way back and outboard will give you the best overall control as you have the best leverage with them there.
So, back and outboard is the fastest.
If you are taller, then spreading the footstraps out a bit can help, but again, you need to experiment to see what works with your boards and rigs.
Hope this helps,
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