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Old 7th August 2007, 09:54 PM   #1
Michael Tita
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Default For a little guy - 2005 or 2007 Starsurfer S

Hi Roger we met when you were in Austin this summer, before Lake Travis washed away. I have been teaching my two sons 5.75(45lbs) and 3.5 yrs old to sail on my wifes 2005(139ltrs 81cm wide) starsurfer M. My older son can uphaul and sail to the end of the tether., no problem. Now I think it is time for him to learn to steer and gybe the board, but I think the Starsurfer M is too big. He has the little. lite Ezzy 1.0 and 1.5.

I have the option to buy a used 2005 (100ltrs 76cm wide) or a 2007(117ltrs 71cm wide) Starsurfer S. I have read all your notes on the problems with moving the sail back, and having a CLR that will work with such a small sail. Do you know if one of these 2 boards will be easier to steer than the other? I am not sure which one has the CLR further back, which I think is what I want.

In order to make either board easier to turn I was planning on replacing the big plastic center fin with an old pointer G10 pointer fin that I have sawed off to 30cm, the same length, and rake as the black plastic fin but about half the surface area , to be a more efficient center fin, and replace the back fin with 24cm very swept wave fin. Do you think this will help?

One other factor is that we are moving to Hood River, by the end of August, so there will be days when it blows pretty hard at the Hook, and my hope is he will be ready to start planing relatively soon.

One other issue with the new 2007, is that it does not have a hand hold on the front of the board to hook a towing rope up to. Could I just go mast to mast for the towing set up? Other ideas? Towing seems like the next step.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 8th August 2007, 12:35 AM   #2
Roger
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Default RE: For a little guy - 2005 or 2007 Starsurfer S

Hi Michael,
I'll paste in your questions and work on them one paragraph/question at a time:

"I have the option to buy a used 2005 (100ltrs 76cm wide) or a 2007(117ltrs 71cm wide) Starsurfer S. I have read all your notes on the problems with moving the sail back, and having a CLR that will work with such a small sail. Do you know if one of these 2 boards will be easier to steer than the other? I am not sure which one has the CLR further back, which I think is what I want."

I'm not sure which Starsurfer has the best CLE/CLR balance as I only have one '07 Starsurfer M at the moment.
Which ever one you get (if you can measure them both and see which has the back of the mast slot closest to the center fin, that would be great) you still may have to make up an extender for the mast slot for 1.0/1.5 m2 rigs.


"In order to make either board easier to turn I was planning on replacing the big plastic center fin with an old pointer G10 pointer fin that I have sawed off to 30cm, the same length, and rake as the black plastic fin but about half the surface area , to be a more efficient center fin, and replace the back fin with 24cm very swept wave fin. Do you think this will help?"

The only other way to fix the CLE/CLR imbalance would be to make a
fin forward extender that moves the fin foward of the Tuttle fin box in the board. This idea might work well.
You could cut off your G-10 pointer fin at the base of the root, and pin/screw/bond it to a SS or aluminum "strut" that extends forward enough to get the CLE/CLR balance your boys need with the small rigs.
Changing the back fin really doesn&#39;t change things all that much unless you go really tiny (like < 20 cm).

"One other factor is that we are moving to Hood River, by the end of August, so there will be days when it blows pretty hard at the Hook, and my hope is he will be ready to start planing relatively soon."

Sounds good! Your boys will love it in the Gorge!

"One other issue with the new 2007, is that it does not have a hand hold on the front of the board to hook a towing rope up to. Could I just go mast to mast for the towing set up? Other ideas? Towing seems like the next step."

If you are getting the &#39;07 Starsurfer S from Darrin, go over and check to see if there are 2 screw holes (like a footstrap insert) under the nose of the board. If so, you can get the web strap "tether attachment" and you would have the same as a towing eye.
If not, I&#39;d suggest having a good professional board repair shop add an insert or put a tube through the nose of the board.
Attaching the tether to the mast foot will cause alot of problems as you (as the coach) cannot effectively "steer" your son&#39;s board from the mast foot on the towed board.
Yes,l I agree towing (as you&#39;ve seen us do at the LTW in Austin) is the next logical step if you want your sons to really progress quickly without putting them at some risk.
The "two board tether system" allows you to steer them, only when they need it. In a few minutes your sons will be sailing right alongside you (maybe even upwind of you) and you can make it a game or a race where they will learn so much/so fast you won&#39;t believe it, all with limited or very low risk that they will get scared or have some sort of downwind/out of control experience that scares them enough that they won&#39;t want to windsurf any more.
Hope this helps,
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Old 8th August 2007, 10:47 AM   #3
Michael Tita
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Default RE: For a little guy - 2005 or 2007 Starsurfer S

Roger
Thank you for the response, it was very helpful. The challenge I face is that the 2007 S is in Hood River at Big Winds, and the 2005 s is in Corpus Christi, and I am in Austin, so I cannot make real measurements.

However, based on what you said, and looking carefully at the pictures on the Starboard website, it appears that the 2005 S has the center board directly behind the mast track. I see the mast track ends, then behind that is the vent plug, and then 2 holes that I have to believe are for the center board screw. On the 2007 S it looks like the mast track is further forward on the board, and I just don&#39;t see any screw holes for the centerboard, so I will have to guess that they are further back? Would the product guys know?

I also realized that the Prokids Go is the same as the 2005 Starsurfer, and it said on the 2006 website the Prokids Go was for the smallest sailers and the Starsurfer S and the M, same as the 2007 were targeted at 55kg and bigger sailers.

So I think the 2005 Starsurfer S, or what is now the Prokid Go is the way to go for the littlest kids like my son.

One more quick question - Once my son has figured out how to maneuver the board, how do I help him transition to planing? Can he plane with the center board in? Will the more efficient G10 center fin help with this vs the black plastic centerboard, or just create so much drag he cannot plane. Also, when do you recommend I put the foot straps on the board? I would guess the medium position would be best? the forward position looks so strange. And I am probably getting way ahead of myself here, but when do little guys go for a harness?

I can&#39;t wait to quit over thinking this and start doing it, we hit the road from Austin to Hood River on Aug 24, be there for labor day. Hopefully the new board will be here next week. Thanks again for your help.
MT
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Old 8th August 2007, 08:23 PM   #4
Michael Tita
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Default RE: For a little guy - 2005 or 2007 Starsurfer S

Roger

I had an interesting idea that might get the 1m sail directly over the center fin. Would it be possible to replace the mast base bolt with a bolt that would screw directly into one of the center fin bolt holes. That way the mast base would be holding in the center fin, and be directly over it. What do you think?
MT
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Old 9th August 2007, 12:18 AM   #5
Roger
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Default RE: For a little guy - 2005 or 2007 Starsurfer S

Hi Michael,
OK let&#39;s look at your first question:

"Thank you for the response, it was very helpful. The challenge I face is that the 2007 S is in Hood River at Big Winds, and the 2005 s is in Corpus Christi, and I am in Austin, so I cannot make real measurements."

OK, I understand....!

"However, based on what you said, and looking carefully at the pictures on the Starboard website, it appears that the 2005 S has the center board directly behind the mast track. I see the mast track ends, then behind that is the vent plug, and then 2 holes that I have to believe are for the center board screw. On the 2007 S it looks like the mast track is further forward on the board, and I just don&#39;t see any screw holes for the centerboard, so I will have to guess that they are further back?" Would the product guys know?
The illustrations on the web page and in the a catalogue are often misleading on things like center fin holes and footstrap insert holes.
I just had a look and I think the best board for your son would be the 2005 Starsurfer S. Yes, it&#39;s pretty much the same as the &#39;07 Pro Kids GO. Not sure if the front "handle" goes through or not, but this would sove the 2 board tether issues either way.
If it doesn&#39;t go through, you can drill a small hole and insert a piece of carbon batten tubing and have nice "towing eye".
Also, I think this is the only board that has the mast slot back far enough where you can ge a good CE/CLR balance.
The holes for the center fin on the &#39;07 Starsurfer S are down inside the handle and quite a ways behind the mast slot.

"I also realized that the Prokids Go is the same as the 2005 Starsurfer, and it said on the 2006 website the Prokids Go was for the smallest sailers and the Starsurfer S and the M, same as the 2007 were targeted at 55kg and bigger sailers."
Yes!

"So I think the 2005 Starsurfer S, or what is now the Prokid Go is the way to go for the littlest kids like my son."

Again I think the &#39;05 Starsurfer S or &#39;07 PK Go would be the better way to go here.


One more quick question - Once my son has figured out how to maneuver the board, how do I help him transition to planing? Can he plane with the center board in? Will the more efficient G10 center fin help with this vs the black plastic centerboard, or just create so much drag he cannot plane. Also, when do you recommend I put the foot straps on the board? I would guess the medium position would be best? the forward position looks so strange. And I am probably getting way ahead of myself here, but when do little guys go for a harness?
You need to remove the centerfin and install the plug, at about the same time that he starts to get on a plane. The center fin will make the board kind of unstable and very hard to turn at planing speeds.
Get him on a harness as soon as you can.
He&#39;ll be "tossed" a few times, but as soon as he learns to get his weight "on the harness" and when to unhook in the gusty Gorge conditions, he&#39;ll be able to sail a lot longer and time on the water will be one of the biggest keys to his success.

I can&#39;t wait to quit over thinking this and start doing it, we hit the road from Austin to Hood River on Aug 24, be there for labor day. Hopefully the new board will be here next week. Thanks again for your help.
You are welcome, my pleasure!
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