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Old 7th May 2008, 02:57 AM   #1
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Default Later into plane with bigger sail and fin!?

Hi Roger,

I have a perplexing problem with my F-type 158. In stronger winds I sail it with a 8,5 Maui sails Pursuit and the stock fin Drake 64 cm (Iím 78 kg). That works quite fine by now. In lighter winds I have tried with a NP V8 10,6 and the Drake R13 70 cm fin. Even though the smaller sail may not the best option for the FT, it seems actually to get me going into plane quicker than the bigger kit, and that is in winds around 10-12 knots. I cannot really figure out why. It feels like there is drag that is not there with the smaller sail and fin. Can it be the fin? I have once tried to sail with the smaller sail and the bigger fin. The problem seemed to be there that time as well but I'm not sure. There are reports here on the forum from persons using the big V8 on the FT-158 and the bigger fin so it should be fine.

Greetings and thanks in advance!

Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2008, 07:44 AM   #2
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,177

Hi Finn,
My experience with the F-Type 158 (actually I used the '05 F-Type 148 and '04 Free Formula 138 (both 96 cm wide)) was always that a 70 cm fin was a little too big and tended to limit my top speed.
I also found that I could (at 170 lbs./77 Kg.) get the 96 cm wide boards going just as early as the F-Type 158.
If you are heavier, the FT 158 may be better for you. If not, I would suggest going with a smaller 66 cm fin.
I had a Deboichet Concept 66 cm that was simply awesome on the 96 cm wide F-Types.
I'd try a bit smaller fin (borrow or demo one if you can).
Also, at my lighter weight on the 96 cm wide boards I found that 9.1 m2 sails, on 100% carbon masts (light weight rigs here) got me going just as early as the 10.5 m2 rigs.
Maybe this is a function of my smaller size (5' 6") and lighter weight.
I'd try a smaller fin first, and see if it's the particular fin that you have that's the problem here.
It may be a very powerful fin, once you get it going, but it may not have flex characteristics that are working for you.
Also, how much are you "tuning" your V8.
Remember, for the earliest planing with the least pumping, you need to rig the V8 very full with less downhaul and outhaul than recommended. Keep the top of the sail a little tighter with less downhaul and get a good adjustable outhaul system so you can lean the sail out, once you get going.
Also, where are you running your footstraps?
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2008, 11:50 AM   #3
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 26

Hi Finn

I use an FT158 in these combinations (I'm 80-85kg, 1m80) for back&forth and deeper "speed runs":

Naish Stealth 2004 9m6 with Drake Race 64 (stock) or Deb R13 S 70;
Naish Stealth 2004 8m2 or Retro 8m5 with Drake Race 64 (stock); and
Naish Redline 2006 7m6 with Drake Race 64 (stock) or Drake Race 56.

The mast base is usually in the rear quarter to third of the slot, or up to halfway if extra control is needed. Back straps outermost & rear; front, outermost & mid.

With the 9m6 the Deb R13 certainly feels as if it's dragging, and appears to give a lower top end - but, if it's marginal will give the extra lift to get on and stay on the plane. The heavier rig takes more effort (from the wind or technique) to get the board over it's bow wave. The big fin needs more pumping/ooching to get up too - then get the lee rail down and let the fin do the work.

I've read that "FTypes like 'big' fins", but with enough wind the stock 64 and 9m6 is fine - if you can try a 66 or 68, go for it.

At the other end of the scale with the 7m6, the stock 64 can get too big very fast as the wind/chop builds. The 56 does feel as though it's not getting the board high enough to only engage the rearmost planing section - I'd love to try a 60.

So far I've logged on gps the 7m6 + 56 at 27 knots, and the other combinations at around 25kn - so, in their wind bands they're not too slow.

If the wind is marginal for any of these combinations, raising the boom helps with leverage and trim - when overpowered dropping the boom some helps to get some "weight" into the front foot to keep the windward rail under control!

Good luck - Martin
MartinJE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2008, 06:32 PM   #4
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14

Thanks Roger and Martin for valuable tips!

There are as I suspected many small factors to take into account. My straps are fully out and back just as you (Roger) has urged me earlier. I'll guess that's still the correct position.

All the best!

Finn is offline   Reply With Quote


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