how far can a wetsuit go?

[crazychemical]

A november. The northern hemisphere faces winter and all it's blessed storms. The autumn storms are at hand and temperatures are dropping. But, how cold before it gets too cold?
This saturday the forcast says between 3°C and 6°, with watertemps at around 10°. Will my 5/3 steamer keep me warm? how about if i put a thermal lycra underneath it? Gloves and cap off course. How long do you guys stay in the water at these temps?

[Chris Pressler]

Hi crazychemical,
it should work. It always depends how strong the wind gets and the windchill factor will be. If you get really strong wind the windchill will make the air freezing.
Defenitely a thermal lycra helps. I have a thermovest with an integrated hood. It´s gold worth to protect the head with thin layer of neopren, otherwise you loose a lot of heat at the head. You also should use gloves and shoes. And perhaps some fat cream for the face to have a good protection against the cold air.Have fun,
Chris

[crazychemical]

you seen the dutch forecast? W-NW, 32 knots. I'm guessing we're gonne get major chillfactor! Well, i'm a med student, i'll catch the frostbite when i see it.
cheers

[Chris Pressler]

There will be some chillfactor, but you will make it. Don´t sail too far outside the ocean, but the watertemperature seems to be ok. So you can warm up inside the water.

Good luck,
Chris

[Per]

A 5/3 will do for what you describe. If you are active the biggest problem will be the fingers.
My coldest day ever was in air temperature of minus 4 celcius and water temp plus 2. There was snow on the beach and ice on the calmer areas of the water.
When I uphauled my sail and went off the water on the monofilm went into a thin layer og ice that fell off like little pieces of broken glass when I flipped the sail over. I used a 6/4 neoprene dry suit with an extra layer of 1 mm on the upper body. I didn't freeze at all except on the fingers.
For normal winter sailing here in Denmark (56 north) I now use a Gul dry suit (not neoprene but the same fabric as dinghy sailers use for their suits) with a fleeze inner suit and some inner clothes like the one you use when skiing. It's WAY better than neoprene warmer, lighter and more comfortable. I can easily have a two hour session in mid winter (temps a little above zero)
I did use a 5/3 all year around - typical air 5 celcius and water 3 celcius. It does get a little too cold after about an hour though.

[Ola_H]

Ditto Per. I also use a "regular" Gul suit, 5/4/3, not even especially dry. When it's cold (meaning aroun 5 deg C) I also use "skiing underwear" instead of bulking up with more neoprene. To that I use 7mm Atan booties. Super comfy and warm and still better handling than many regular 3-4mm booties. Still (with my toes and fingers destryed by cold skiing) feet and hands are the problem. The DaKind cold water mitts are good, but fingers still set the limit for me.

The real thing to consider when sailing in the cold is what you do when something breaks, or you loose your gear. You have to have a plan for that. I try to stay as close as possible to where the waves break so that I can let the waves wash me ashore. If its 5deg C air and water, 40 knots and strong currents, you will have a rather slim chance of making it in on your own even if you're only a few 100 meters out. So be prepared and use high quality and fresh mast feet and stuff.

Below is a good day in Sweden some time in january this year.

[Jean-Marc]

Originally Posted by crazychemical

forcast says between 3°C and 6°, with watertemps at around 10°. How long do you guys stay in the water at these temps?

Haiko,

It largely depends on a number of variables, but research has shown that the predicted 50% survival times for fully clothed men in water wearing lifejackets are 1 hour at 5°C, 2 hours at 10°C, and 6 hours at 15°C.

However, since windsurfing is done most of the time in air and water spray and not fully immersed in water (except for the few waterstart or unavoidable falls), the most critical variable I've found so far is the wind chill factor for my fingers resistance to cold. Even 10-11 °C water is no problem going barefoot, but cold air + wind is a real killer in the long run. After 2-3 hours, my fingers are usually becoming numb enough that it's about time to give up. I'm wearing a neoprene 5/3 mm drysuit, 2 mm neoprene full hood, 3 mm booties, 3 layers of latex examination gloves or 2 layers of dishwashing gloves (made waterproof by taping with duct tape to the drysuit's wrist/forearm), helmet and a snug life jacket (it does keep you warm as a true wind stopper). As soon as fingers get wet from sweating, they get numb and cold and the game is over just before it hurts (frostbite).

The problem with a steamer is the cold water shock when falling into water for the first time, especially when cold water sneaks into the warm neoprene suit near your vital organs (heart and kidneys). It's a good idea to wear a neoprene shorty underneath your steamer, but not a lycra because when wet, you start to get cold. Unlike the neoprene shorty, lycra is a water sponge with zero insulation power when fully soaked. Wet lycra feels a lot colder on your skin than no lycra at all.

Finally, as Ola has pointed above, safety first: wear a helmet & a life jacket/PFD, know your own limits and plan some "safe harbour" exit strategies if things go unexpectedly wrong...

Cheers !

JM

[Ola_H]

One more remark: For some reason - and this holds both for me and my friends - it seems that if you first go in and sail for something like 20 minutes and then go up and get you hands warm, then you can afterwards sail for much longer without getting cold. It's like a kind of tempering.

This is a very effective strategy. The problem with it when it's really cold is that your body as a whole might get cold as soon as you're on land, not keeping active. But some extra layers of clothing while on land will help with that.

[crazychemical]

Originally Posted by Ola_H

One more remark: For some reason - and this holds both for me and my friends - it seems that if you first go in and sail for something like 20 minutes and then go up and get you hands warm, then you can afterwards sail for much longer without getting cold. It's like a kind of tempering.

This is a very effective strategy. The problem with it when it's really cold is that your body as a whole might get cold as soon as you're on land, not keeping active. But some extra layers of clothing while on land will help with that.

I read the same thing on the Dutch forum and when i went surfing on Saturday i tried it and it does work. At first my hands barely survived 2 runs (partially cuz i was testing a new board and i had a couple of 'feel' issues, as was to be expected) but then i warmed my hands for about 10 minutes in my towel and went in again and i managed to pull of 6 runs before i lost the strength in my hands. I warmed up again and went in but the wind started falling by then and my mate had broken his board so i didn't bother to rigg my 6.2 and we went to work on the storage/chilloutspace.
My wetsuit seemed to be inpenetrable for the cold. i had no problem with the windchill factor even though there was a 6°C difference between the air and the water with northwestern winds blowing in, so as far as wetsuit goes i'm no longer concearned. With a thermic lycra underneeth it i think i can pull off 5°C water before actually feeling the effects of the cold on my body.
The thing i wonder though now is: what are good gloves ... i'm useing Triboard openpalm gloves with my prolimit half finger summer gloves to protect my palm a bit but none the less my fingers freeze over quite fast. Are there like more specialized wintergloves?

[nonopr]

Perhaps you guys might be interested in this wetsuit. The first electric power heated wetsuit in the world out in the market today. Limited quantities available for now only 100 stores around the world have it.

http://www.ripcurl.com/index.php?hbomb

Enjoy. We tested this suit in the artic at -35 C and no one got cold with it.