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Old 26th April 2009, 03:28 AM   #1
Per
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Default No cam sails for slalom?

Hi..
I'm very satisfied with my new iSonic 122, and I blast it a lot. My sails are 8.5 and 6.5 no cam freeride sails and they seem very powerful and efficient though not really designed for the purpose. I don't compete except against my mates for fun. Will I experience a miracle if I switch my sails for pure race models, or just that little extra race winning knot?
It's interesting that on my former S-type 115 I didnt really have any problems clocking +30 knots in +25 knots of wind with my 6.5. Even on my Carve 145 I could do this at times. This seems quite more difficult on my iSonis 122 though it's very speedy and controlled in quite high winds. Sail or board problem? Are new slalom boards that sail specific to be really efficient?
How come I seem to gain better max speeds with freeride sails on freeride boards than on slalom boards?
I'm 95 kgs and quite experienced..

Hi
;-)
Per
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Old 26th April 2009, 06:17 AM   #2
mim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per View Post
Hi..
I'm very satisfied with my new iSonic 122, and I blast it a lot. My sails are 8.5 and 6.5 no cam freeride sails and they seem very powerful and efficient though not really designed for the purpose.

How come I seem to gain better max speeds with freeride sails on freeride boards than on slalom boards?
I'm 95 kgs and quite experienced..

Hi
;-)
Per
Hi Per,

I also have a 2009 122 iS and yes it is verz speedy and yes I still did not reach the speeds I was used to on S-Type...I guess to get the top out of it I just need more time-on-water...just to get used to it.

With the racesail...I just can say, no-cam is good, but camber sail (just comparing in planning) is a different world, at least for me. It needs much more wind to get going...this would mean it pushes you to go overpowered and once planning it is really sweet.

Try one for a short time and you will see.
Ciao Michal.
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Old 26th April 2009, 12:29 PM   #3
Per
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Thanks MIM..
I'm not sure I got your points.
Will cammed sails plane LATER, but be more efficient once there? So that if I normally use a 7.5 no-cam I will need a +8.0 cammed sail to get going in the same wind, but be more powerful when maxed?

I do use a cammed sail on my formula, but it'd hard to compare a 100 cm 70 fin board to a smaller slalom.

What about the compromise twin cammed freeraced sails? Any experience?
I'd like to know as much as possible before I let the $$ go..

;-)
Per
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Old 27th April 2009, 12:25 AM   #4
mim
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Hi Per,

yes I can compare a twin cam and a 3cam-freerace sail.

The twin cam is 2008 Severne Element 8.5, this more freeride sail than race, the leach is not that loose, one batten less (6). This sail planes very early, is nice stable once planning, and pretty fast as well, but as soon as the wind gusts go close to 25 knots or above it is too much and you have to focus more on the sail than on the ride itself.

The race sail is 2008 Severne Overdrive 8.5 (yes I have currently both of them). This needs more wind to get going (15 knots compared to 11/12 for the element) but I was on it today in wind gusting slightly above 25 knots and it still is fun to ride, very fast and as you plane and the gust comes you really can feel the drive forward...which is not the case of element where you feel the backhand pull extremely.

So for freeriding, element is fine, if you want to push it and be fast, or if you sail a lake where the wind is not exactly constant (my case)...the race sail is better I guess. I'd rather be a while not on plane than swimm back when the wind picks up (this happend to me a few wekks ago with the element).

PS: I reallised that planning treshold of the element in 8.5 is for me the same as Overdrive 10sqm...so I am selling it now, but that does not mean it is bad sail...it has a sweet properties.

Ciao M.
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Old 27th April 2009, 01:37 AM   #5
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Per
I guess you were faster before, because Stype is much narrower, and you were fully dialed on it, confident to put the hammer down. Something is wrong if you are faster on a Carve 145 than on iS122.
Nocam sails are not a very good choice on an iS, as you know by now. Just try/borrow a few freerace and race sails and you'll know what you want immediately. You'll find another gear on your iS.
I'd second what Mim says, an 8.5 twin cam will get going as early as a 9.5/10 full-on race sail (overdrive is still considered freerace I guess, compared to CodeRed).
My preference is 3 cam North Daytona on my iS122, I like it better than North Warps I've tried. A bit "friendlier" and still plenty of stability (doesn't mean everyone will agree). People I know who prefer full-on race sails (warp, vapor, code red, rs, etc) are either pros, or sailors who don't mind a bit more pumping and always sail pedal to the metal.

"How come I seem to gain better max speeds with freeride sails on freeride boards than on slalom boards?"
I guess Floyd will jump in here ;-)
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Old 27th April 2009, 02:11 AM   #6
mim
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Hey Screamer,

you are right on Overdrive...it is a freerace sail (3 cam), but it is closer to a race sail than to a freeride sail. In fact I guess it is also very close to your Daytona and I think that for most of the people those sails (3 cam) are the best choice for a board of this type (slalom).

Ciao M.
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Old 27th April 2009, 10:36 PM   #7
Per
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Thanks a lot..
Soo. If a freerace sail will plane earlier but also max out earlier than a dedicated race sail at equal size, why not just get a smaller freerace sail?? Is the total wind range of the race sail larger?
I actually tried a NP RS1 8.5 (race sail and a little old school 2003 I think) and compared it to my Tushingham T-Bird 8.5 (7 batten no-cam low foot). Planing was equal, max speed in favour of the no-cam, acceleration definitely in favour of the race sail and max power control better on the race sail (it seemed very stable even in unrealistic gusts).

I wonder what a modern freerace/racesail could do. I like to sail small boards and I'm not so happy about compromising early planing.
Regarding speed on the iSonic vs. S-type and Carve I don't think top speed is that important compared to average speed and acceleration and this seems to be best on the iSonic.

;-)
Per
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Old 3rd May 2009, 12:30 AM   #8
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Wink s type fun!

I am not "on topic" here but it seems many here like their s-types ..agreed ?

I bought one last year a 105, and the thing is fast as all get out, the bevelled rail makes its a bit nervous but does it ever gybe sweet...and fast!

I have put up a 7.2 on it and it goes .I wiuld like to put something even bigger on it but my next biggest is an 8.5 metre neil pryde helium.tjhis my be overdoing it ..opinions??

the stock fin a bit underpowered, forgiving but underpowered, and i am looking to upgrade this ,
but a good buy!
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Old 4th May 2009, 01:34 AM   #9
Per
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Hi..
I don't think the 105 will work with an 8.5 metre sail. I have used my 8.5 on my S-type 126, and it's actually not that great. The tail is just too narrow so you can't really power upwind. My iSonic carries the 8.5 great. My experience with the S-types (I've had two 115 and 126) is that they are not great with large sails, but seriousely speedy and manouvreable wit medium sized rigs..

;-)
Per
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Old 4th May 2009, 09:14 AM   #10
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Per,

I had the same question some time back. i got an answer from gps-speedsurfing.com (i think. It was long ago). The answer I got was that no-cam sails can bring you to that top-speed too, assuming you keep the rest constant. The advantage of cambered sail is that it will get you planing earlier which is what racers need and that is the reason why racers are using cambered sails. Someone (cannot remember his name) in Australia did use a KA no-cam sail and was able to hit a remarkable top speed (much higher than most people using cambered sails) proving that non-cam sail can indeed reach very high speed.

I'm also curious to find out what I can do to improve my Vmax without spending too much money. I'm still chasing the elusive 30knts target :-)
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