Go Back   Starboard Forums > Windsurfing School

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22nd June 2009, 02:40 AM   #1
johntr
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Default Formula Experience vs. Go 175 vs. Futura 155

Hello all. I'm a long-time reader of this forum who learned just about everything I know about windsurfing from Roger. Thanks to advice from this forum I went from never planing to always planing, in the harness and outboard straps, teaching other people how to sail their Go boards .

I've been sailing my 2001 Start for years ... but it's showing signs of age now, and I'm thinking I should find a replacement board this season. I currently own:

2001 Start, which I sail any time the wind calls for 9.0 or bigger
Go 165, which I sail in 7.4 or 5.9 weather
Carve 135, which I seldom sail, because it's harder to sail, but not faster than the Go
2003 Start, which I use for teaching (it's not as nice a shape as my '01 Start)

I sail inland lakes here in the midwest, so I spend most of my time on the Start, in the harness and straps, flying around, having a blast. (I *love* that board!) I go 6', 200 lbs, so the big board is just right. In a perfect world, Starboard would make a board that was just like the Start:

100 cm
EVA deck

except:

lighter, like the Go
maybe a more modern shape, with cutouts and stuff, to go even faster

I looked for such a board, and don't see anything like it. The most reasonable possibilities seem like:

Formula Experience
Go 175
Futura 155

The Go and the Futura both seem like they would be more similar to my current Go 165, and not as comfortable with the huge sails, and hence not a great Start replacement ... so I'm very tempted by the Formula Experience. However, every time I've talked to better sailors about the Formula boards, they've warned me that they're more technical to sail, and not as good across the wind as boards like the Go. They say Formula boards just want to drive high upwind and low downwind.

So: what do you think? How to choose? Any other alternatives I should think about?

Thanks!
John
johntr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2009, 12:02 PM   #2
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,112
Default

Hi John,
Thanks for your kind words!
Let me think about this for a couple of days.
I think the Futura 155 or the largest Isonic may be more what you are looking for, but you are correct when you say it would be very nice if Staboard would come up with a form/fit/function replacement for your 2001 Start.
I have a 2002 I bought last year, and I'm constantly on the lookout for a 2001 Start in really good shape.
Hope this helps,
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2009, 02:57 AM   #3
johntr
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Default

Thanks, Roger. I look forward to your wisdom.

Also: what booms do you like with the new big Retros? I'm replacing my 10.5M Retro with an 11M Retro, and am thinking about getting a carbon boom at the same time. I can get a Chinook locally, or an HPL from Sailworks from reasonable prices. I'm seeing lots of reviews raving about the MauiSails booms; is that just hype?

Thanks,
John
johntr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2009, 05:11 PM   #4
marek
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 95
Default

Hi,

Out of curiosity, why are you so happy about Start, it's 230 liter board, for your 200 lbs (90kg) seems like an extremely huge beast?
I'm currently happily blasting on a 9.0 and 125l/69cm board, and starting to forget about my 148l/96cm F-type, since it planes just a bit earlier (honestly, with my probably poor technique it planes just as early as my 125l). The great plus for me it is a pleasure to slog on it comparing to F-type and also it feels like real surfing when going over the chop/small swell because it's no so wide.
I replaced the standard fin in 125 with a quality one and it's changed the world, very good upwind and no spinouts.

-marek

P.S. I've also changed my 9.8 3-cam freerace sail to 2-cam 9.0 and even though it's smaller it planes noticeably earlier (worse top-end and speed, but narrow sleeve=easy uphauling/waterstarts and much less weight).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but given your (and mine also) weight and profile, sails larger than 9.0 doesn't give too much advantage in early planing (only in downwind and upwind performance). I don't really see how I could on plane with any sail in less wind than the gentle puffs that push me on plane on my 9.0. True, 11.0 would probably give me more stable plane and better upwind, but for me personally it's not worth it.

Last edited by marek; 24th June 2009 at 05:35 PM.
marek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2009, 07:08 PM   #5
espen
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7
Default

The 2001 Start is an amazing board, and I regret a lot that I sold mine last summer. It glides on to a plane very smooth, handles chop fine and even handles medium wind as a much smaller board. I’ve even managed to get safely home in a storm +40 kts on this board.
Last year I changed the 2001 Start, to a 166 GO for family fun, and I’m sorry to say I would gladly change it back. There is something with the whole concept of the 2001, and with a decent fin (I used a Curtis Freeride 44) it’s just a smooth ride for both beginners and advanced sailors. 2001 was a very good year for SB and I’m never getting rid of my 175 Formula.
But for medium wind blasting – Futura 122 is still the king

- espen
espen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2009, 12:30 AM   #6
johntr
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Default

Yes, I'm with Espen on the 2001 Start. It's just a great board for sailing in light wind. Once the wind gets close to 20 knots I find the Start a bit awkward -- 40 knots is just scary to think about! -- but with 7 meter to 11 meter sails, it's my favorite board.

Espen: how do you compare your Formula 175 to the Start? Perhaps I should try to find a used board in that range ...

Thanks,
John
johntr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2009, 04:28 AM   #7
rod_r
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 78
Default

The 2001 Start was my first "real" board. I was a founding member of the Start-a-holics, back in about 2002, and the Start, with lots of Rogers help, took me to a level where I was blasting in the back straps with an 8.7m Nitro and 65cm fin.

Yes there was something about that board. Every year after that it got more and more rounded in the tail and heavier and heavier.....maybe it's time SB offered it as an anniversary model.
rod_r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2009, 07:09 AM   #8
espen
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7
Default

As Rod mentions it has a lot to do with the tail of the board. The Start 2001 has sharper edges than the “modern” boards and a wider/different tail. Not the greatest jiber, but who does a lot of planning jibes in light winds :-)

The 2001 formula 175 is a lot lighter (8.6 kg), different rocker and a lot faster to get planning. It also handles more wind with the thinner shape. It needs a little more attention than the start, and more fin pressure. But the extra 30-40 cm in length compared to the “modern” formula boards helps a lot. With moderate skills and a large rig it is easy to drown the nose when you “try” to get going after uphaling, that never happens on a 2001. I use this in light winds with a 9.0 NCX, it’s a easy, smooth and fun light wind cruiser. Upwind handling is amazing, no need for a daggerboard.

- espen
espen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2009, 08:33 AM   #9
Roger
Dream Team - School Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,112
Default

Hi again Johntr,
Been thinking about your situation quite a bit in the past few days.
If it's fixable, you might just want to hang on to your 2001 Start.
For about half the cost of a new board you might be able to find a really
good repair shop that can restore your '01 to close to new condition.
Only board I see that's even close would be the '09 iSonic 150:
150 liters
228 cm long
93.5 cm wide
65.1 cm 1 foot off
8.50 Kg.
I think for your purposes the iSonic would be better than a formula board, and definitely
better than a Formula Experience (ASA skin, pretty heavy, not great durability).
You could probably get used to a formula board, but you are correct, they are pretty much set up for really huge sails ( 9.5m2 is probably a minimum) and max. upwind/downwind.
You can change fins (something in the 58-65 cm range) and make a formula board a little more like a freeride, but they do what they were designed to do so well it's difrficult to "de tune" them for free ride type sailing.
The iSonic 150 however is probably as fast if not faster, planes almost as early, but isn't
as difficult to sail on beam reaches as a formula.
So, there's probably not a real good solution here.
Another "classic" (if you can find one if good condition would be the 2004 Free Formula 138 or 158.
I rue the day I gave up my FF 138 to Ellen as she fairly "rips" on it up at Ninigret Pond.
If you are heavier than 190 lbs., the '04 FF 158 might be the ticket.
Sorry I don't have a better answer for you, but I'll vote with everyone else.
If they would only build a lightweight 2001 Start Special Edition, I think they would sell a bunch of them. A very special board indeed.
R
Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2009, 04:55 AM   #10
johntr
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Default

Thanks, Roger. I really appreciate your frank answer, as always. (And: here's hoping the Starboard designers are listening to you!)

I've had my Start repaired a few times, and it's still in good condition. Maybe I'll just hold onto it for this year, and get a Gemini so I can get more TOW with my wife .

Nice to hear from Rod and Espen again, a couple of the other members of the Start-a-holics .

Best,
John
johntr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +7. The time now is 12:39 AM.