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Old 12th November 2006, 04:53 PM   #1
Expander
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Default North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

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A simple question: how does North Sails "One mast fits all" concept work?

For example: I have bought a 2006 Daytona, size 7.3, and this sail uses a 460 mast with a final luff of 486 cm; well, from catalog, North Sails says it is possible to use same mast (460) with smaller Daytona size, till 5.4

...but 5.4 (year 2006) has a final luff of only 448 cm!

How is it possible to use a 460 mast on a sail with a luff of only 448 cm?

Regards.
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Old 12th November 2006, 10:33 PM   #2
Roger
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Hi Expander,
OK, the smaller sizes of the North Daytona (5.4 m2 and 6.0 m2) have an adjustable head strap at the top.
So, you adjust the strap and headcap so the mast extends beyond the top of the sail (approx. 20 cm on the 5.4 m2 Daytona and approx. 5 cm on the 6.0 m2 Daytona).
Check out this link to the NS Daytona:
http://www.north-windsurf.com/sails/daytona.en
Follow the links to the little Hexagon with the "2 masts fit all" which explains the use of the "Carbon extendo" extension for the larger Daytona sails.
BUT, take note of the mast bend specifications in the chart for the Daytona sails.
The best mast for the 5.4 m2 Daytona is a 430 cm MCS 21-23.
So to get the best perfromance from the smallest Daytona, you need a 430 mast, and to get the best perfromance from mid size Daytonas you need a 460 IMCS 24-26 mast, and for the the larger Daytonas, you need a 490 mast and then the 490 mast with the CX (carbon extender) for the 10.0 m2.
So, what they are telling you is that you can get away with only 2 masts + the Carbon Extender (a 460 and a 490 to cover the entire range 5.4-10.0 m2) of Daytonas, but if you really want the full performance you will need 3 or 4 masts.
Hope this helps,
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Old 13th November 2006, 02:40 PM   #3
Ola_H
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Roger phrases things nicely above. I would add that while its a sort of nice service to the customers on a tight budget to go the "1 (or 2) mast fits all" route, there is still a fundamental problem that smaller sails need softer masts to work to their fullest potential (and larger sails need stiffer masts). That is for example manifested in the 430 being the rec mast for the Daytona 5.4. Even if you specifically try to design a smaller sail to work on a stiffer (longer) mast you would have to do some compromises to get there and end up with a less responsive rig.

So, personally I think its is in most cases better to go for perfect fit masts, at least as a long term strategy. If you're getting a new quiver now, I would for example argue that its better invest in complemantary masts next time (instead of getting fresh sails again).
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Old 14th November 2006, 06:48 AM   #4
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Expander

I'll second what Roger & Ola have said, from a personal experience. I've used 460 mast + carbon extender with a 9.0 Daytona. It will work (well sort of), but when I tried it with a proper (longer/stiffer) mast, there was a world of difference. So, while it may be a good idea (to buy fewer masts), it doesn't offer good enough performance, not even for recreational sailors.

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Old 16th November 2006, 11:28 PM   #5
Expander
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

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Thank you, Roger, Ola_H and Screamer, for your detailed and persuasive explanation about "North Sails one mast concept"...

Expander.

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Old 17th November 2006, 02:22 AM   #6
Ken
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

It's a matter of budget & I have been on both ends. At one time, using a 460 mast for everything from a 4.0 to a 7.5, plus a 480 with an extension from 8.5 - 10.6 (this was many years ago) Now I have a separate mast for all but one sail.

If one can come up with the money for a quiver of masts - great! If not, you make do with what you have. Is it better to have a 430 mast with the 5.4 - sure!. Can you still have fun with a 5.4 on a 460 - you bet.
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Old 18th November 2006, 01:14 AM   #7
Per
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Another factor is gusty winds where you may prefer to have a couple of quivers ready on the beach.
I can have a 5.75 on 430 mast and 6.5 on 460 mast ready for a quick switch if the wind changes. If they were to use the same mast I would have to de rig the whole thing every time.
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Old 18th November 2006, 11:36 PM   #8
Doby
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Yes Per but if I have two 400 mast I can rig 4.7 and 5.3 at the same time. If the wind gets lighter I can derig the 4.7 and rig up a 5.7 without having to derig the 5.3. It??s pretty obvious that this is an huge advantage if you have fluky winds....
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Old 19th November 2006, 06:31 AM   #9
Roger
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Hi Doby,
Might work, but if you read the "best mast" specifications from North (and basically ALL other sailmakers), your 4.7 needs a 400 cm IMCS 19 mast and your 5.3 needs a 430 cm IMCS 21 mast.
A 6.5 needs a 460 IMCS 25 mast.
8.5 m2 rigs need a 490 cm IMCS 29 mast, and sails larger than 10.0 need 520 IMCS 34 mast or 550 cm IMCS 39 mast.
As you can see, the larger the sail, the stiffer the mast required.
Adding the North CX (Carbon Extender, or any other type of extension to the top or bottom of the mast) does not make make the mast any stiffer, so the more extension your add, the poorer the perfromance of the sail (unless sails were designed on extended masts, which they are not).
Even when you have a sail that takes a 460 cm extended out to a 490 luff length (with 30 cm of a normal 46-48 cm extension under the bottom) you can be assured that the sail designer actually used that combination (460 mast with 30 cm of extension) as the basis for the design. (This is why virtually all sail designers recommend a "best" mast. The "best" mast is what they used when they designed the sail and provides the most likleyhood that the sail will perfrom for the customer in the way that it was designed.
Use a different mast, and you will surely get a different result.
Is having the best mast "critical"?
In some cases , absolutely, in others cases a mast that's "close to the right specs." may work pretty well.
If you consider that we "pay" quite a bit for the best sail designs, it makes very little sense to compromise those designs by rigging the sail on a mast that does not provide the full performance you have paid for in the sail.
Hope this helps,
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Old 19th November 2006, 06:56 AM   #10
steveC
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Default RE: North Sails "One mast fits all" concept.

Roger,

You have made an excellent point regarding mast usage, but I would like to emphasize that some sail designers do identify the potential use of different mast sizes for certain sail applications. I know that you acknowledged that, but I want to ensure that folks understand that. I have been benefiting from the use of smaller masts in larger sails because of my lighter weight, and I'm sure that similar folks can do so too. Our strategies don't always have to accommodate spending maximum figures to find synergy and balance.

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